Date: Wednesday, January 18, 2023

Time: 1:00pm Eastern / 10:00 am Pacific

Presenters: Charles Rogel, VP of Consulting; David Long, COO

Stay up to date on the latest employee experience trends.

The makeup of the workforce has changed quite dramatically over the last few years, and 2023 will be no exception.

Join DecisionWise COO, David Long, and VP of Consulting Services, Charles Rogel, as they provide predictions on what to expect and plan for in 2023 as it relates to employee experience.


Charles Rogel | 00:00 

Hi, everyone. Welcome to this decision-Wise presentation on the 2023 employee experience predictions. Uh, my name’s Charles Rogel. I’m the Vice President of Consulting Services here, and I’m joined today by our COO Dave Long. Hi. Hi, everybody. Um, we’re gonna have some fun today. We’ve got a lot of data and slides to share. We’ll move relatively quickly. Before I jump in though, for those of you interested in SHRM or HRCI credit hours, this webinar does qualify for one hour. And so when we’re done, we’ll send out an email with the codes for those SH RM and HRCI credits that you can then, um, log into the system to get credit for. We’re not gonna be sharing the slides from today’s presentation, however it is being recorded, and we’ll post that and also send out a link afterwards. And we also want to, uh, encourage and welcome comments. 

Charles Rogel | 00:54 

We’ll be checking the chat, uh, feature here. Um, as we go through this, we’re gonna be kinda laying out some predictions here, kind of having some fun with some of this data. We’d love to get your reaction and kind of a pulse on what’s going on in your, uh, neck of the woods, uh, compared to what we’re seeing as well with some of these, uh, data points that we’ll be showing. So let me just jump in and share our agenda really quickly. We have a lot of topics we want to cover, so we’ll go through some of these current economic trends. Everything’s kind of up in the air right now. We’ve got some data to show around those, but then we’ll get into this, um, this theme or this agenda around all these different topics here and what we’re kind of seeing, uh, what some predictions are, trends that we’re seeing. 

Charles Rogel | 01:37 

And we’d love to kind of bounce again, those ideas off of you and get your reaction. So please participate in the chat if you have something to share, especially if you want to disagree with Dave. Um, <laugh>, I don want to hear those, uh, those things as well. Um, so this slide is very, uh, we’ve been using this a lot this past few years. Uh, you know, our clients have come to us and said, Hey, what do you see going on in the industry in terms of the pandemic and thereafter? And so what we’ve been tracking are kind of those topics, um, that clients have asked us to measure within their organization. So we’re an employee survey company. We start off a project with a client and say, Hey, what are you interested in measuring? We’ve got our standard set of questions. What else is a concern? 

Charles Rogel | 02:18 

These are the concerns that kind of popped up over the years. And, and no surprise in 2020 during the pandemic, people were concerned about safety, uh, diversity, equity and inclusion, uh, communication, productivity, collaboration. So those were hot topics that we began measuring more, uh, in detail. Uh, we got some good benchmarks that we’ll show on these topics as we move forward. Um, 2021 was kind of the year of getting back to the office, kind of emerging from the pandemic. We wanted to see if we could kind of get people back to hybrid working situations. So working from home was a big topic in terms of how do we navigate that and implement policies, but also workload increased. Uh, the great, you know, know, resignation or retention was a topic too. How do we keep the, our employees, um, still diversity, equity, and inclusion? But then culture kind of emerged because people were wondering what happened to their culture during the pandemic. 

Charles Rogel | 03:13 

As we were working from home and somewhat separated last year, it was interesting. Flexibility and work-life balance were really some of the top concerns that we saw rise, uh, rise to the top here for employees. And so they were very concerned about how many days they’re working in the office, uh, not kind of giving up some of the freedoms that they had during the pandemic in terms of working from home. Those things also influence retention. So people with better policies around flexibility tended to be able to recruit better and retain people more than other organizations. So we’re measuring a lot of things around that too. Uh, DEI kind of merged with culture and we’ll show you some data there that we collected on these topics. Workload was still a big concern. Mental health, um, somewhat emerged, but didn’t get too much traction as a topic in 2022. 

Charles Rogel | 04:03 

Um, but it’s still somewhat of a concern that we were, we were paying attention to. And now to reveal what we’re expecting in 2023. Um, work-life balance, the letters kind of switch a bit so to employees, it’s life work balance where there’s more of an emphasis on what I’m doing with my life work not being such a big, um, emphasis, well, I shouldn’t say emphasis, um, priority. So reprioritizing your life around work, uh, as a, as a topic. Compensation with inflation and the competitiveness in wages right now is a top concern. Um, again, culture and, uh, D-E-I-B-B for belonging in this case and workload and retention. So, slight, slight change in order to some of these topics. Dave, anything you want to add here? 

David Long | 04:52 

Yeah, I, I think, um, I, I think 2022 retention, uh, I think that goes down the list a little bit just because of economic concerns. And, and, and you might add to 2023, it’s not really as much of a, of an employee, uh, experience trend, but I would say that the organizations are concerned about the economy and even concern over the economy can impact, uh, potential layoffs and things like that that might be happening in your organization. Uh, so we’re, that’s, that’s something that’s certainly concern and certainly something that I would add to the equation. But retention continues to be a concern for a lot of organizations. I think, um, in 2022 and in 2021, we had something like 15 or 16 or 17 of the highest, uh, turnover months in, in the United States in the history of, uh, of the United States. And it was by a long margin that some of those months were, were, uh, some of the highest turnover employee turnover, uh, months, uh, in history. And so that even though it may slow down a little bit in 2023, um, I would say that that’s still gonna be a major issue. Um, a lot of the organizations that we work with are still dealing with vacancy rates of 10, 15, even 20%, where they’re still looking for people to fill positions. 

Charles Rogel | 06:08 

Good points. All right. So we wanted to set this up with some of the economic trends that are impacting kind of the workforce and what we’re seeing there. Um, Dave, I’m gonna rely on you as the finance, uh, expert back having the background here. We’ve got a few slides with some of these financial indices. You want to talk about what we’re seeing in the markets? 

David Long | 06:28 

Yeah, I mean, and this is just to kind of give us a general idea, I think. Um, what if we look at kind of the macro environment and, and maybe some of your organizations are experiencing something similar? Um, I, I think if you actually look at this, and this is o obviously a long, uh, time horizon that we’re looking at the down the s and p, but if you look over at the last year, we’ve already seen kind of a pullback in the economy. Um, and, and, and we see that in, in really the stock market, um, and the value of stocks going down. Um, oftentimes stock markets can be predictive of what’s happening in the future, um, of, of late actually that we’ve seen a few days that have been, or a few weeks where we’ve rallied a little bit and actually come back from where we were kind of toward, uh, the end of fall, early winter, uh, of this last year. 

David Long | 07:18 

And so, uh, so it, it’s really interesting to kind of see that and see kind of, it’s, it’s a little bit, um, uh, the economy has a little bit of a multi personality or multiple personalities, <laugh> going on right now. We’re not really sure where it’s going. Um, I think there’s a lot of concern over, um, what has inflation done to the economy, what’s that going to do, rising interest rates, uh, the lack of avail availability of money for organizations to go access and to be able to grow and to expand workforce and things like that. And you’ve seen certainly some of that, um, with, with, uh, with, it seems like every day in the news, there are additional layoffs that are being announced, which are obviously major employee experience, have a major impact on employee experience. And so, um, you know, I think the reason why we show this is to show you okay, we’ve, yeah, we’ve experienced already some, some pullback in the economy, but I don’t think we’ve gone to any major troughs like we did in 2000 and and eight after the, after the, um, subprime lending crisis that we experienced. 

David Long | 08:23 

Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And even in 2020, right after the pandemic hit, we had this huge trough that, that was only like two or three months long before we were able to rally and come back from that. We haven’t seen anything major like that yet, is obviously we’ve had a few, uh, months and even quarters of, of, uh, of the stock market being down. But what the question is and, and what the questions that your organizations are going to be answer is, what are going to try to answer is what’s gonna happen from here. Um, and they’re going to obviously make preparations with their workforce based on what they predict. 

Charles Rogel | 08:59 

Yeah. And that kind of takes us to a couple other, you know, topics that we’re seeing. So in the labor market, um, it’s still strong, so it powers ahead, wage growth kind of loses steam. So we saw wages increase as people are changing jobs and take, you know, taking better offers. Um, but we saw an increase in December, the unemployment rate even fell a little bit more. Um, you know, labor force rises, you know, so we’re, we’re kind of at a real, still in a real tight job market in terms of available employees, um, hourly earnings up slightly 4%, 4.6% year on year. Um, contrasting that with inflation. Uh, so we’ve got all this inflation going on, um, that’s still, you know, hurting people. Um, it declined a bit. So have we hit the peak and now we’re going down, but we’re still, you know, paying a lot more for stuff. So this is a big concern for employees workers. So how am I gonna afford, you know, uh, you know, this, my lifestyle or just afford to survive in a lot of cases. So these are kind of the two major factors people are thinking about. 

Charles Rogel | 10:06 

Uh, and then a couple other pieces, uh, Dave, what’s up with all these corporate profits now? <laugh> Yeah, go ahead. 

David Long | 10:16 

Sorry, go ahead, Charles. 

Charles Rogel | 10:17 

I, I was just gonna say, you know, looking for some data, we’re hearing in the news a lot that there’s record corporate profits in light of the inflation and mm-Hmm, <affirmative>, the, the question is, well, are profits like, are corporate gains now causing inflation? Is there some, some greediness out there that’s causing this inflation? Or is it, um, an outcome of inflation that profits are increasing? 

David Long | 10:39 

Yeah. And, and, and, and things like this I always wonder about. But yeah, I think inflation, with inflation, obviously, um, the amount of money that you capture as an going to increase, as the prices of your goods and services increase, especially if you have not increased wages commiserate with, with what you are, uh, what you’re capturing in terms of revenue and, and, and profits. So, yeah. Yeah, it is interesting to see kind of the, the bottom line increasing over time, uh, even as we’re, we have some, uh, recession fears ahead. 

Charles Rogel | 11:11 

And then, um, just to reiterate, in terms of what we’re seeing around unemployment. So we said before 3.5% is what we were sitting at recently. Um, looking at the, the number of unemployed people per job opening, it’s really low 0.6. So basically for every unemployed person, there’s almost two job openings, uh, for that, uh, individual. And so again, yeah, we’re, we’re kind of scraping the bottom of the barrel, essentially, to find workers to fill positions poaching from other organizations that’s really competitive out there. Definitely an employee employees market. But then we get news of all these layoffs going on. And so you can see in the tech industry especially, um, and I grabbed these, uh, screenshots a few days ago. Um, last year, 125,000 employees lost their jobs. We’re hearing an announcement from Alphabet or Google today of about 11,000 more. So that trend is still happening. 

Charles Rogel | 12:05 

There’s, there’s some popularity, I shouldn’t say popularity, there’s some definite layoffs occurring in some organizations. I’m curious if that’s also happening, if you’re all seeing that in your organizations. And then, um, another piece, uh, well, and then, you know, what do we make of all this? Um, so a couple insights or predictions and trends that we’re seeing. So again, pool of talent is small. Um, back in 2022, most organizations were basically taking who they could get, right? So with a small pool of talent, you’re hiring a lot of people. Maybe you’re not being as selective as you were before. I know my wife who works in the construction industry in hr, um, they’re basically hiring anyone that can pass a drug test and, uh, give them a chance to work in the organization, see if they pan out. Um, uh, the, so the trend, what we’re suspecting or predicting a bit, is that some organizations are kind of jumping on this bandwagon of layoffs just to kind of reduce some of the bloat that they might have in their workforce. So maybe a lot of underperformers were kind of hired, you know, we were somewhat lax in our hiring practices. We hired some people that just aren’t working out. And so we’re gonna do some layoffs just to kind of reduce and maybe, uh, tighten up a bit. Um, 

David Long | 13:20 

And also in addition to that, Charles, when, when other organizations and, and major organizations and news making organizations start doing layoffs, it becomes a little more, and I’m, I’ll just use the word socially acceptable, right? If, if you were thinking about right sizing, or if you were thinking about, Hey, we’ve hired a whole bunch of people that weren’t really qualified for the jobs, we needed people that, that could fill those positions, but they weren’t really qualified for those jobs, then we can do it. One of the reasons why I know, um, that that has been the case in some cases. I know in some cases our organizations are laying off mostly from their sales and marketing, uh, groups, um, sales people, marketing, uh, marketers. Very hard to come by over the last couple of years. Um, and, and, and, uh, and you know, that those organizations are going to hire to replace their Salesforce. They’re not just gonna go without salespeople. Um, and so it, it may just be a move to, to sort of try to upgrade talent in their sales organizations. But, but I, I know that’s not every organization, but I, I know at least some of them would be looking to see, Hey, can we remove some of the, some of the talent we’ve acquired over the last couple of years that was maybe suboptimal in order to do it? And that, I know that sounds horrible. That sounds awful, but I think that might be the reality. 

Charles Rogel | 14:33 

No, it’s true. ’cause you don’t wanna look bad, right? You don’t wanna be that the, the only company doing layoffs. ’cause that indicates that you’re not as strong maybe as, as you suspected, but yeah, so kind of maybe a cleaning house, um, exercise, wait and see mode. So now, you know, CEOs are trying to make these decisions. Are we going to be conservative or are we gonna kind of still restock the people that we need? Because, you know, um, um, pro, you know, we’re trying to increase productivity. So I’m curious, again, in the chat, I’ll ask for those of you, are you seeing kind of a, a freeze right now? Are you still hiring? Um, I’m trying to get a feel for what others are kind of doing or how we’re playing this out right now. 

David Long | 15:12 

Yeah, I’d love to just put it in the chat if you can. If you’re actively hiring, I’m curious about that. If you’re in a freeze or if you’re looking at a layoff or have done a layoff, that would be great to know. 

Charles Rogel | 15:22 

Yeah. And then, you know, day to day we’re kind of seeing this, Hey, is this recession gonna hit us or what? Or has it hit us? You know, is it, is it occurring, you know, in certain industries or areas, you know, we know, uh, for example, in, uh, real estate, there’s a downturn, but, um, yeah. Is this gonna be, um, how big is this gonna be? Is it a big, uh, tsunami or just a few, uh, few waves that we’re seeing? Um, now we’re seeing actively hiring most 

David Long | 15:49 

People? Yeah. Yeah. Three, the three that have posted so far are all actively hiring four now. 

Charles Rogel | 15:54 


David Long | 15:55 

Five, six. Wow. Um, so there you go. Um, I think we did this. Um, now Charles, you did this webinar a month ago and asked a similar question, and we had a number of people that were in the middle of layoffs. Is that 

Charles Rogel | 16:07 

Correct? Yeah. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> we had, yeah. 

David Long | 16:10 

Looks like we’ve got a couple of them, um, right now, seasonal business that that is maybe, uh, uh, looking to reduce a little bit. Um, we’ve had one organization that has done layoffs, but actively hiring again in other areas, maybe reducing one part of the organization in order to build somewhere else, have somebody on a hiring freeze. Really interesting. 

Charles Rogel | 16:33 

Yeah. And I, and I think 

David Long | 16:34 

A lot of people actively hiring. I think that’s been true with a lot of the organizations I’ve been working with as well. 

Charles Rogel | 16:39 

Yeah. And this, um, and, and so the good news for organizations is that workers, if they’re seeing a little bit of, um, uh, uncertainty in the market, they’re gonna settle down, right? They’re less likely to kinda leave and jump ship because they know if they join an organization and layoffs occur, they’ll probably be the first to be let go. And so, right. This makes people a little bit more conservative, they ride it out, they’re gonna wait until they’re a little bit more confident. So we’ll see if that occurs, um, as we go forward. That’s one of our predictions. But Dave, what’s your opinion if, you know, when, when layoffs occur, what does that do to the employee experience? 

David Long | 17:15 

Yeah, I don’t think I’ve, I I, maybe in just a few instances, I’ve actually seen where layoffs have been a positive impact on employee experience most of the time. I think the biggest impact that it has is confidence in the future. Yeah. Confidence in the future is such a huge indicator of whether or not somebody is going to want to stay with that organization long term. When you have a layoff, um, you know, in some cases I suppose it can be done very well. Uh, but when you have a layoff, then, then it immediately gets people thinking about their own, uh, their, their own future. And, and, and am I secure here? Do I feel like the organization is ultimately gonna show me loyalty in the long term? And no matter how kind you are in doing it and things like that, people always have those concerns. And that’s a huge impact on their engagement, but it’s also, it’s a major impact on their willingness to stay with an organization. 

Charles Rogel | 18:07 

Yeah. And sometimes there’s a little blip of a, a, a secondary kind of, uh, exit from people they see a layoff, those that are kind of afraid of what the future might be take off as well. 

David Long | 18:17 

Well, it’s interesting because you do see organizations that do a layoff because they’re just trying to, to trim lower performers. Um, and yeah, what we found is it’s best to kind of trim your lower performers along the way, rather than trying to do it in a major event that is a layoff, that’s a news making layoff event to that sort of thing. Um, it’s better to, it is better to kind of, if you, if you need to, to remove low performers or, or under underperformers from positions to kind of do it as, as that is happening. And of course, you rely upon you as HR people rely upon managers to really carry the burden to make sure that they’re managing up or out. But that, that can be a very challenging thing. 

Charles Rogel | 18:58 

Yeah. That comes back to bite HR a lot. Mm-Hmm. Um, and then if people are, you know, kind of hunkering down, that will create, um, some bottled up, uh, uh, uh, turnover that will happen once those fears end. So if people kind of sense that the economy is doing better, they might, uh, leave a little quicker. Alright. So, yeah. And Charles, 

David Long | 19:21 

I don’t know why it would be, I, I think we’ve maybe just entered into a new phase of, of the working world where I don’t know why it would be any different than what we experienced in 2021 and 2022, where people were job hopping pretty quickly. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, I do think people will continue to, to be pretty, will continue to just kind of move on quickly if they’re, if they’re not 

Charles Rogel | 19:41 

Satisfied with the, where they’re, yeah. Their loyalty threshold’s really gone down, it seems people it has, um, are, are really more seeing that, hey, it, it makes sense to move more than to stay. Mm-Hmm, <affirmative>. Um, all right. So here we want to touch base on benchmarks, you know, so, you know, we’re in the business of measuring engagement. Uh, we also look at satisfaction. We kind of break out these two components. We’ll look at these two topics here in more detail. To give you kind of a sense for what we’re seeing in these trends around, um, satisfaction engagement. We typically say satisfaction elements like pay and benefit and workload, um, help drive retention. So people will tend to stay longer. They don’t necessarily drive engagement. In fact, um, usually that you want these things to be on par with people’s expectations, and then they can engage and think about the higher level needs that they have, which really drive performance. 

Charles Rogel | 20:30 

And that ties into our magic model where these typical magic, uh, elements or factors or drivers for engagement, we see this time and time again as we run driver analysis, that if people have more growth opportunities or experience more, meaning they’ll be more engaged in their work. So we’re gonna touch base on some of these things overall in our data. Um, for, uh, you know, the last four years, our rolling benchmark, uh, includes, um, you know, all the data we collected from over 400 companies. Um, and looking at the breakouts here, we see about 78% of the population is engaged in their work. Now, generally, we’re asking five anchor questions to get a beat on people’s, um, motivation and engagement. And if we’re saying strongly agree to those statements or agree, this is how we get them in this, uh, or classify them as engaged overall. Um, here are the trends though. So as we look at this, you know, generally it’s pretty stable. You know, we’re, as 2019 perceptions were lower, our engagement was lower, 76%. It bumped in 2020, uh, dipped a little in 2021 and held its own in 2022 for an overall average of 78%. As we look at our rolling benchmark, um, Dave, what do you predict for 2023 <laugh>? 

David Long | 21:48 

Yeah. Uh, I predict more of the same. Uh, yeah, I think, I think, uh, you know, this is one of our more stable benchmarks that we have. Interestingly, I’ve read, um, I think Gallup has had, uh, a study that came out recently about, um, engagement numbers going their, in their benchmark going down. And I think that’s just ’cause they don’t help their clients as much as we do. What do you think, Charles? 

Charles Rogel | 22:09 

<laugh>? Yeah, agreed. Huh? <laugh> just, 

David Long | 22:12 

Just kidding. But, uh, but they, you know, they, they have a different measure for engagement. They, they have a higher standard where they say, you know, like 20% of the workforce is engaged. Um, but, uh, but for us, we, you know, and I think what they’re saying is fully engaged and our fully engaged number is around 28%, and that stays pretty consistent over time. I would expect that that would continue to stay consi consistent. We had a question that I just want to answer really quickly. Oh, yeah. Um, who, Courtney asked, what does the magic acronym stand for? Um, meaning, uh, just really quickly, I run through the meaning you have some level of purpose in your work, that your work means something to you personally. Autonomy, you feel trusted by the organization, by your manager, by your team, to kind of handle your work in a way that you feel like it should be done, uh, growth that you feel like you’re making progress personally, professionally, in your career, um, on a day-to-day basis. And over time impact that you feel valued, uh, for, for the contribution that you’re making in the organization, that you feel like the, the work that you’re doing makes a difference. And then connection is this really important one that, uh, that is absolutely essential. And, and another word that we use for that sometimes is belonging. And essentially the feeling that I belong here in this organization has a massive impact on whether or not you feel like you’re going to engage and stay long term with that organization. 

Charles Rogel | 23:33 

Yeah. And this came from our data over the past 25 years as we were running kind of multiple regression analysis to say, what are the drivers of engagement that we see constantly appear? Now, the words we, we massaged a bit, so meaning and purpose, we chose meaning, so we could get kind of the magic acronym to appear. But it’s an easy way to remember that these are the general drivers that typically, um, uh, uh, impact engagement for individuals. 

David Long | 23:58 

We use these on, on all of our surveys. We use, um, we measure all of those things on all of our surveys because it, it, different organizations will be different. So some organizations will be a little more purpose driven and others will be belonging driven, and some will be growth driven and impact. And it just depends on the organization where that, where that deeper motivation is coming from. And so we try to, we cast a wide net with all of these drivers, and, and usually two or three of these will come back as some of the key drivers of engagement in those organizations, in, in most organizations. 

Charles Rogel | 24:32 

Um, yeah, keep the questions coming. So let’s, uh, transition to talk about attrition. Um, we did a couple analysis analysises, uh, in the past couple years to look at what are the reasons why people are leaving organizations. So one of these is kind of backfilling, uh, data into an employee survey. So if we run an employee survey for a company, we say, Hey, uh, six months later, send us all the people, send us a list of people that left the organization. We’ll break it out as a demographic in your results, and we’ll see if there’s any leading indicators about why they decided to leave. So were their perceptions lower? And then they finally left the organization three or six months later overall. So, um, we found 28, or we did this with 28 organizations. Um, here’s some of the findings or the results that we found. 

Charles Rogel | 25:20 

So what this is showing is the, the yellow bar here indicates those that voluntarily, voluntarily left the organization. And the green bar indicates those that were, that remained. And when we look at the greatest differences between agreement, we say percent favorable, the agree or strongly agree responses between these two groups. These questions showed the biggest differences. So my job is fulfilling and challenging. 38% of those that left the organization agreed with that statement compared to 77% of those that stayed. So if you felt your job wasn’t fulfilling and challenging, you’re more likely to leave. Here’s that belonging question. Dave mentioned. Only 53% of the population agreed with that compared to 80% of those that stayed. Now we’ve underlined a few that highlight this topic of growth, advancement, fulfilling work. Um, so you can see there’s like three or four items tied to that type of, um, perception that, uh, you know, that are different between those that are leaving the organization compared to those that stayed. You’ll notice we don’t ask a lot about benefits or pay in our employee surveys. So we’re not seeing that kind of show up on this list of statements. Um, but this kind of calls out, yeah, growth advancement is a topic that’s different for those that leave. 

Charles Rogel | 26:39 

Um, a lot of people say, well, what about the supervisor? People don’t leave bad companies. They leave bad supervisors or managers. Well, there was a difference. And you can see the growth question that we ask about supervisor interaction, uh, had the biggest difference overall. Um, but there’s also also some differences, you know, less agreement from those that left the organization about their manager, their supervisor, than those that stayed. Uh, but it was interesting to see there’s bigger differences on some of those other topics. Um, and then transitioning here, we also looked at our exit survey data. So, you know, a lot of our clients use different questions on their exit surveys. Here. We found the most commonly used questions from 15 organizations that we got some good data on. The first one that shows up, again, advancing my career. So career advancement, growth, all these other things, less agreement, only 33% agreement on that statement compared to some of these other ones that were asked, uh, when they left the organization. And then, oh, go ahead. 

David Long | 27:40 

Uh, one of the things I think is mentioned here that I think we’ve seen as a trend over the last little while is that people have left jobs. Uh, since we’ve been doing exit surveys for the last few years, um, we, we’ve noticed that career advancement is the number one reason why people le l leave jobs. But, uh, one that’s kind of shown up a lot recently has been the level of stress in my job is manageable. And you can see that, yeah, there’s a 1, 2, 3 fourth one on here. Uh, people are, you know, and I think understaffed organizations have led to stressed out employees, which has then complicated the problem of being understaffed because those employees leave for other jobs. So it’s, uh, definitely been a factor. 

Charles Rogel | 28:21 

Um, we also, uh, have another index that we use. We’re trying to understand the satisfaction component here. We talked about engagement already. So we use another subset of questions to measure the level of commitment that people have to stay within the organization. And here we’re seeing, we, we do a similar exercise. If you’re agreeing more with those statements, you’re more committed. We see 74% on average as we’re looking at our global benchmarks. Um, and then 18% who are more neutral and 8% who are kind of disagreeing with those statements and have a higher potential to leave. So, um, here’s some more data as we look at those that are undecided. So those that are saying, uh, more, you know, responding more neutrally to those state other statements, here are the things that they’re disagreeing with the most. And so of these 18% in the database that were undecided, 36% of them disagreed, said, strongly disagree or disagreed to working effectively across departments and functions. 

Charles Rogel | 29:17 

35% disagreed on this communication question. And senior leaders knowing what’s going on, what I’m pointing out here, advancement and person professional growth show up here as well. So again, it, it makes the list in terms of the, the most disagreed with statements, uh, from these folks. These are the things that are, we call detractors or maybe the topics that are bothering people. If we look at this, 8% that are disagreeing with these, you know, intent to stay questions are also disagreeing heavily with these other same statements. So professional growth and advancement. 68% of this small population is disagreeing with these statements. So again, reinforcing professional growth, advancement shows up in multiple areas as we touch on these topics. 

David Long | 29:58 

I, I, I think we should mention too, that we’ve seen this now a number of time in, in a number of times in, in the, uh, data that you showed before of the employees who left the organization within six months. And now, here again, um, if I feel like I have a voice in an organization that goes a long way to me feeling like I, I wanna stay there and, and I feel like I belong here and, and will engage here as well. So that top one about having a voice or, or just feeling like my, my input is valued. 

Charles Rogel | 30:25 

Yep. And that one also kind of, uh, influences how much I feel cared about by the organization. Yeah, that’s true. Um, and then we, so, you know, you touched on workload, Dave earlier, you know, as, as some of the reasons why people leave. If we look at this undecided group again, that are undecided about staying, these are the questions that we typically ask about workload on a survey. And you can see that these folks also are agreeing less with these statements. So the blue bars are essentially the agree and strongly agree responses. Gray is neutral, and the red is the disagree and strongly disagree. And again, you know, it’s kind of split, you know, a third or a fourth are kind of agreeing with some of these statements. But we’ve got a third to, you know, uh, either neutral or disagreeing on these items too. 

Charles Rogel | 31:12 

So yeah, these are other factors that are kind of contributing to their, um, their less likelihood of staying <laugh>. Um, and then, uh, one other piece of data. You know, we asked these, we’ve been tracking the trends on these questions. These are kind of our intent to stay questions that people feel like, you know, the organization has this successful future, they’d recommend it’s a great place to work. And finally, if I would choose to remain despite, you know, if everything else was even, um, a slight decrease in 2022 on some of these statements. And so we have seen kind of this intent to stay suffer a bit, uh, when we’re looking at some of these trends in our data. And so the big question is, will that continue? Will that improve? We sense it might improve a bit. Um, if people have, you know, if the economy, uh, kind of cools. 

Charles Rogel | 32:04 

If, if we say, you know, summarizing what we’ve been talking about, these retention factors, growth and advancement always showing up in our data, but compensation is rising on the list, and we’re seeing this play out. Again, we don’t ask this question directly on a lot of surveys ’cause we don’t wanna set the expectation that we’re gonna change something about compensation, but it does show up in the open-ended comments. People mention pay wages, whatever, as a concern or something that could be improved. Um, so that is rising on the list. And then of course, we’ve got workload. We’re gonna show you a bunch of data here on remote work opportunities too, and market optimism like we said before. Anything else you’d add here, Dave? 

David Long | 32:44 

No, I, I, I don’t think so. Maybe just something from, uh, from our discussion about, uh, the intent to stay questions. The other thing is your intent to stay index may decrease a little bit if you, if you’re running a survey with an intent to stay question, it could decrease even as you’re not seeing turnover. But that could be a sign that, that, uh, as soon as people feel better about the economy, they’re going to leave your organization. So it’s something to pay attention to, even if you’re not experiencing turnover at the moment, uh, just pay attention to that. ’cause does that decrease is as soon as people feel good about opportunities out there, they will leave. And, and all of a sudden you’ll see a, a big, uh, clip of, of, uh, of turnover. 

Charles Rogel | 33:25 

Good point. All right, so work-life balance. We’ve got some interesting data here to show for this. You know, obviously during the pandemic, this preference for what we’re now kind of labeling life work balance has increased. Um, really interesting study done by mackenzie. Uh, really big data set. 25,000 people, they polled in the spring of 2022 about their remote work opportunities. And what was interesting is that, you know, 42% of those that responded not offered remote work. Now that’s a mix of a lot of people that have to be whatever on the manufacturing floor or out in the field or whatever their job, you know, doesn’t a, allow them to kind of work from home. But, um, 23% were offered remote work part-time and 35% full-time remote work that’s much higher than I expected to see. Uh, overall, 

David Long | 34:17 

I’m curious if people could put into the chat, um, what their breakout is, how maybe Oh yeah. Percentage of people that are offered, uh, remote work in your organization versus those who, who need to be, um, on location or in the office, um, uh, at your, uh, in your organizations. We have one already that says they’re fully remote. 

Charles Rogel | 34:35 

Yeah. Yeah. And, and thinking of the clients I’ve worked with this past year, about 70 or so that we’ve done employee surveys with very few, I might say a handful are fully remote. Um, you know, basically have like, um, they, they, they’ve re reduced their office space dramatically. Everyone can work remote. But again, it, it, it really lends itself to more of a white collar position, maybe in the tech industry where you can do so others with manufacturing, of course, um, some of their departments are fully remote, but not the whole organization hybrids fully remote. Um, next slide I thought was really interesting. Okay, so basically wanted to state 58% can work remote. Again, that’s much higher than I expected. Now I think that number’s, we will get to this, but I think that number’s gonna shrink a bit or maybe get squeezed a bit, um, as a result of maybe a cooling of the economy. 

Charles Rogel | 35:25 

But, um, separately what was asked here is if you’re offered to work remote, what’s your preference? And so again, we’re taking that 58% that we saw before and saying, well, what is your, your preference? Not what you’re actually getting, but what’s your preference? And you can see 32% are saying five days, uh, a week. You know, so, so again, not everyone wants to work from home all the time, but there’s a, you know, a third of the population that does. And then it’s very, um, sporadic. So even 13% would prefer to be in the office full time. Um, but there is a spectrum. And so just keep that in mind as you’re working with people. Some people like coming in the office a few days a week. Um, mm-Hmm, <affirmative>, others prefer, uh, full-time, uh, remote. 

David Long | 36:09 

Yeah. We’re seeing a few more people with a little more nuanced. Um, a bunch of you are fully remote still, um, and may continue to do that it seems like. But, uh, a number of them are hybrid. I’ve actually, I think that’s what I’ve been seeing for most of them is, is there’s a lot of org Most organizations I think have at least some people that are fully remote, um-huh? Or at a minimum hybrid. But there’s, there’s a number of organizations I think that are, that are, uh, requiring, uh, people to come back to the office at least for part of the, for part of the week to choose. And they can usually choose two or three days that they wanna work in office. But, uh, but we’ve seen a lot of hybrid, uh, work environments over the last, I’d say six months to a year. 

Charles Rogel | 36:49 

Yeah. Uh, you know, and this does vary a bit by occupation and or industry. And so I thought these findings were interesting where, you know, computer, mathematical occupations, 52%, reporting that they’re remote, 37% part-time finance, I see finance departments still a lot remote now, engineering and so on. So again, more, you know, office type work, uh, can be done remote. Most, uh, tech, uh, workers. I’m seeing programmers working remote. In fact, it’s almost an expectation I’ve seen in that, uh, for that type of occupation. Um, and it’s hard to hire talent if you’re not. So those are really interesting, you know, product production, protective service, obviously you’ve gotta be, uh, on site, uh, to kind of fulfill a lot of those, um, responsibilities. Sales is interesting. I expected that to be higher. Um, maybe this internal sales as opposed to outside sales. But you know, your Salesforce if you have an outside Salesforce generally working remote around the country. 

Charles Rogel | 37:56 

Um, and then what was also really interesting from this study, this is kinda the last point I wanted to highlight, is this flexible working re relationship. The blue bar here about working remotely is kind of the third highest top or, uh, uh, motivator for seeking a new job. So when they’re asked, you know, what’s your reason for seeking a new job? Well, we’ve got pay or hours, which is number one, which we’re not typically measuring on our surveys a lot, but not surprised. It shows up here. We’ve already talked about career opportunities, but flexible work, remote work, um, really, uh, climbing the list comparatively, 

David Long | 38:33 

Uh, I don’t think it would be anywhere close to that in 2019. I mean, we didn’t really measure that much around flexible work prior to 2020. It wasn’t, yeah. But I don’t think it was on people’s mind as much as it is right now, 

Charles Rogel | 38:44 

For sure. Um, so keep that in mind. 21%, again, it’s not everyone, but, um, that, that does factor into some of your positions and you have to kind of factor in if that’s a real, um, important position too for your organization. So here’s how we’re tracking some of these work life balance topics. Um, you know, we ask these questions, uh, on our surveys frequently. We’re seeing some decreases on some of these. So 71% agreement on the statement about the organization promoting a reasonable work-life balance compared to what we saw in 2021. Um, healthy balance, you know, what amount of workload stress. So some of this factors into being able to work remote, but also just the amount of work I have to do and, and staffing issues as well as the time. So slight decreases in 2022 compared to what we saw in previous years. 

Charles Rogel | 39:35 

And then, um, here’s what we hear from clients, especially in the comment sections of surveys. Um, when people are talking about remote work and what, you know, we ask, what can you do? What can do, what can we do to make this a better place to work? Well, fairness comes up and they’re saying, Hey, it’s not fair that our policy isn’t as good as the, what I’m seeing in the industry. That’s why I’m looking around. Or it’s not implemented fairly within our company. Like, different departments have more days off than us, or our manager insists on us being in the office more than other managers, which isn’t cool. So fairness is a topic and then also trust. And so people feel like, Hey, you’re taking stuff something away from me, so this perk, this benefit we got is now being taken. So now you don’t trust us to work from home. What changed? And then some companies are using or trying to track, um, uh, productivity using some monitoring tools. And that’s, you know, making people feel like it’s a big brother type organization and it undermines trust. Uh, the other topics, you know, so here’s what kind of organizations are saying, Hey, we want people to work in the office. ’cause you know, we have social needs. It’s important for networking, innovation. Um, and so the idea is yeah, collaboration, uh, culture, um, just, uh, you know, um, uh, what’s the other, uh, topic here? 

David Long | 41:01 

Yeah. When, when, whenever, whenever the organization says, and we’ve seen this happen a number of times where organizations are asking their, their, uh, employees to return to the office, at least in a hybrid situation, the reasons they’ll give to employees are gonna be, well, you’ve gotta fulfill social needs. You’ve gotta, it’s a better opportunity for you to be in the office and be networking. And also it improves innovation. There are other reasons why leaders might say to the organization, we’re, we’re asking you to come back. But there are other reasons that they’re not saying, and they won’t say, and they, and if they are saying it, it’s probably the wrong thing to say, but <laugh>, that that is sort of the underlying reason why people might, uh, why, why, why leaders are wanting people to come back. They are concerned about productivity when you’re not in the office. 

David Long | 41:45 

Um, there’s some concern about moonlighting Are, you know, how much, how, how much other work are people taking? How much, um, you know, are they doing contracting work on the side when they should be, uh, giving that productivity to my organization? Whether that’s a, um, a legitimate worry or not, I don’t, I don’t know. I don’t think, yeah, it’s that big of a worry, but, but it is something that we’ve heard, um, availability. Like when I need you or when I need to talk to, to a certain person that works here, am I gonna be able to get ahold of that person? Um, is this person gonna be able to respond in time to an email, uh, or a critical situation that’s going on? And then professionalism, it’s been, um, you know, a few years since we’ve, we’ve had the experience of, of having zoom calls or teams calls like this one where we see people that are, you know, kind of in their bedroom with a closet with shirts hanging up behind them and things like that. 

David Long | 42:37 

And the more we get away from that, the more there are concerns that, hey, whatever is in your background is kind of a, and whatever you’re wearing and things like that matter a lot more than they did in 2020. And so they want, you know, to give the appearance of pro professionalism in those, in those video calls, video calls that weren’t happening in 2019. Yeah. By the way, you wouldn’t even just hear somebody on the phone rather than seeing where they are and where they’re sitting and what they’re wearing, et cetera. But those are, those are some of the, the things that, that even though there are reasons that they want people to come back into the office, they’re not the ones that they’re gonna go out there and broadcast. They’re gonna say, oh, come back for the social aspect, for the networking, for the innovation, but for the collaboration, but not for these other aspects that they are still worried about. 

Charles Rogel | 43:20 

I think one other item I’d add here, at least for employees is advancement opportunities. You have a better chance for advancement if you’re working in the office and meeting with, you know, leaders and that sort of thing. So that’s something that, that comes up. Great. Um, yeah, and to your point, Dave, I think there was also in 2020 this, um, you know, we were more forgiving or at least, um, uh, understanding of people working from home and hearing a dog or a kid screaming in the background. Um, that’s all cool, but now are we changing? Are we getting back to where, hey, you know, we, we need to, you know, sharpen up a bit. I, I don’t know, that’s, uh, unfolding. So a few trends, um, you know, the pandemic of course prove we could work from home. That’s why people are saying, why are we, why are we so anxious to get back to the office? We talked about preferences varying for the number of days working in the office. Um, you know, we used to have this perks war back in the day, especially in technology companies with cafeterias available and all these onsite kind of fun act, you know, fun things, foosball tables, you know, there’re all the, the, um, cliches Now people, people are like, how do we get, 

David Long | 44:27 

How do we make it? So employees wanna stay here as long as they possibly can. <laugh> 

Charles Rogel | 44:31 

Yeah. Right? Yeah. In the office, right? Yeah. And we’ll skip lunch 

David Long | 44:35 

And dinner and breakfast, right? 

Charles Rogel | 44:36 

Right. I’d give all that up for working remote, you know, if I don’t have to commute, that’s, that’s my thing. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So that’s, uh, you know, that’s become, uh, the, the, the highest priority events are important. So people do want to connect. And so when they come to the office, they want to be there for a reason. They don’t want to kind of arrive to an empty office and sit in their cubicle alone. They’re hoping that if we are getting in together, that it’s, uh, it’s an event where we connect like connection, piece of engagement, um, and network and do something productive. So we always say, kind of build it around some kind of events. And I suspect, or we suspect, um, that organizations might take advantage of this down turning the economy to get people in the office more. So we might see people trying to increase the number of days we’re required to be in the office if we feel like we have an advantage now, uh, in terms of hiring. 

Charles Rogel | 45:27 

So that could be on, you know, the, the back, the back burner. Alright, so here’s another concern. We’re seeing, um, you know, productivity, workforce productivity, latest numbers show that it is dipping, dipping slightly. So it was pretty high. It was, and this was the surprising finding. Everyone started working home during the pandemic. There were some layoffs, uh, but, but output, this little blue line increased and stayed ahead of hours worked overall. So the, the blue bars here indicate are we seeing a positive or kind of negative worker productivity trend? And here we’re seeing the blue bar dip below the hours worked. And so this is because of all those quiet quitters that are out there. No, I’m just kidding, <laugh>. But there’s, there is a, a real concern, uh, appearing around productivity. Um, so what does that mean? Well, um, the concerns that we have is managers are around accountability, you know, especially working from home output. 

Charles Rogel | 46:24 

How do we kind of monitor this, measure this, uh, you know, we added quiet quitters here and, and moonlighting again, um, availability. So all these things are kind of a concern, but really it’s about good management. So we just have to learn how to manage better in this new environment if we have people working from home. We’ve been, you know, asking several different questions around these topics to kind of get a beat on this to see if we feel like, um, you know, these things are working. And again, a lot of this depends on the person’s direct manager, um, which takes us to kind of what, what do we do with this? Um, which is kind of this leadership impact, um, and, and approach. Dave, do you want to touch on these items? 

David Long | 47:07 

Yeah, I think, I think what we’re seeing is, and this is, this is for performance management. I would also put this into the category of engagement, uh, yeah. To really boost engagement in your organization and bo boost the desire of people, um, in your organization to stay. There’s a huge leadership impact and LDX that he put on this slide really represents what we call leader driven experience. Um, I think that this is be gonna become a bigger and bigger part. Speaking of predictions, I think this will be a, a bigger and bigger part as we continue to kind of build out what we’re doing around employee experience a lot more is gonna be, is gonna depend upon the leaders in the organization. And that’s from, that’s from the very top of the organization to the day-to-day manager that you report to. Um, one of the things that we have learned from our results, and, and we showed you some what, what is the supervisor’s impact on people leaving the organization? 

David Long | 48:00 

And it wasn’t as big as some of the other issues like growth, like feeling valued for my opinion. Uh, some of those issues are big. Now what we’ve also found is who’s re who is primarily responsible for growth in an organization? If I were to do a poll of people in an organization, who do you think is most responsible for my own growth and advancement? And I gave three options. One was, are you the most responsible? Two was, are is your manager the most responsible? And the third is the organization most responsible for my growth and development. Um, most of the individuals that work there would say, oh, it’s my manager, or the organization and the organization of managers would say, oh, it’s the individuals. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> primary responsibility for their own growth and development. Um, and, and, and we just had a comment, individual is most responsible. 

David Long | 48:49 

<laugh>. I agree with that completely. And, and that’s why we, when we look at, when we look at the, uh, engagement, we say half of this is is on the employee, what are you willing to put into the work? What are you willing to do it? But the other half is based on the circumstances that they’re placed into. There are some people that will engage no matter what set of circumstances they’re that, that, that surround them. They can have the worst job in the world and say, Hey, this is the greatest job in the world, but there are other people that need, and people like me, and I think Charles, that need to be, to have the conditions right for me to be able to choose or want to be engaged and invest in my career in an organization and things like that. And leaders can really help with that. 

David Long | 49:30 

So, um, a leader who’s attentive and understands, hey, this is here are your career goals, and willing to kind of challenge and stretch the person and say, Hey, go, go work on this other thing because I know it’s in alignment with what you want to do, can really help with that. The other thing that we see is leaders who are willing to advocate for the organization tend to have more employee, more engaged employees reporting to them. So leader driven experience also means that we are, um, not just wrapping our arms and protecting people from the big bad organization that’s out there making our lives miserable. It’s helping them see how they belong in this organization and, and the positive things that the organization does and, and to help to explain some difficult decisions that are making in a way that can make sense to employees. A lot of that is on the leader and a lot of that has impact on whether or not somebody’s gonna stay there and engage in the organization. Yeah, 

Charles Rogel | 50:27 

That was really good points. And I’ll add what we’re seeing in our data lately, as we look at the responses to employee surveys from leaders, their perceptions around workload and stress are lower compared to the individual contributors. In other words, they’re carrying a heavier load, they’re busier, more stressed. And so, and that’s especially with frontline leaders. Um, and so in order for them to fulfill these bullet points here, they need support. They need to also, you know, if they’re too busy to do any of this stuff, uh, they’re, they’re not gonna, you’re not gonna create an engaged workforce. So you gotta support them and give them, um, the, enable them more. 

David Long | 51:04 


Charles Rogel | 51:05 

Uh, okay, so last topic here around culture, diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging. So belonging is now, I shouldn’t say is now is, is really a, a important part of this whole idea of culture, diversity, equity, and inclusion. We, we measure, you know, several different questions on this, this topic, I feel like I belong here is probably the most important one on this list. And it’s holding steady, uh, as we look at our data year over year, uh, 78% agreement on that particular topic, comfortable in the culture. We saw Spike. It was interesting, 82% agreement on that statement, and it dipped a little bit to 78% this past year. We’ve begun asking this question more. I, I can be myself. It works. We didn’t have enough data in 20, 20 past two years, it’s doing well. So most people agreeing with this statement about being myself and the care question took a little bit of a dip. So do I feel the organization cares about employees? Um, 76% agreement compared to 78. So, and 

David Long | 52:06 

That’s one of those that takes a dip usually when you have a layoff, right? Sure. So if you have a, and I’ll be interested to see with, with organizations that we’re working with, is they have layoffs to see what happens to that in 2023. 

Charles Rogel | 52:18 

Um, and then how are we measuring DEI? So we’re trying to get a feel for both, you know, diversity, equity, and inclusion. The top one kind of touching on, uh, diverse, uh, workforce, uh, that’s kind of holding steady year over year as we’re measuring this. Um, being treated EQU equally or equitably, uh, 85%. So, you know, more agreement on this statement overall in the organization, although there are differences by gender and ethnicity when we look at specific organizations. So this does play out differently comparatively. And then, you know, again, we’re asking this inclusive environment question more frequently. We saw DIP in 2022, a pretty significant one in our global benchmark, and so we’re trending on that to see what, what’s going on there. Is that, you know, is that trending also with belonging a bit, uh, around feeling included, uh, in the organization. Um, and so a couple of questions here we’re interested in seeing. 

Charles Rogel | 53:14 

So when we started measuring this back in 2020, very few organizations were really doing much or, you know, had training or had many initiatives around diversity, equity, and inclusion. Now we’re seeing more organizations. They have an effort, they have a, you know, employee resource group, they have a committee, whatever. And so we’re trying to get a beat on are we seeing it make a difference? Here’s a couple questions you can add to your surveys going forward to see if our, our efforts are really paying off and making a difference overall on the culture of the organization. For the most part, when we ask these questions, we are seeing it. We see it in the comments of surveys where people really appreciate, um, the, the changes and improvements. Um, but it does take a lot of work and effort. Um, and hence, uh, here’s some kind of best practices we’ll share with you in terms of what we’re seeing other organizations do to kind of promote diversity, equity, and inclusion. 

Charles Rogel | 54:08 

Now, a lot of organizations we work with, they have a diversity person and they are running a really good program and have a lot of initiatives going in. As we’re doing employee surveys, we’re just asking a few questions, kind of taking a light measurement on some of these topics. Other organizations, we’re helping them do a pulse survey very specific to a lot of topics around diversity, equity, and inclusion. So you can kind of, you know, um, typically we say, yeah, let’s include it on your employee survey, so we get a beat on this. And then that gives us some data to then run with, with the committee or your diversity person to, um, uh, to plan initiatives. Uh, these topics, you know, typically we say, start off, what kind of diversity do you need? It is, um, different by organization, your location. Again, a lot of our, you know, US based organizations are very interested in this, but it differs across when you get outside to your international locations in terms of, uh, how it’s defined and used. 

Charles Rogel | 55:05 

Of course, there’s training, you know, ERGs, um, a couple things here, you know, iteration, you’re not gonna solve it with your first, you know, uh, your first launch outta the shoot. So you’re gonna need to iterate, try different things, see how they work out. The conversations that emerge from your efforts are really, uh, what we see as, um, having an impact because it gets people talking, it keeps it front of mind. We’re trying to, again, change perceptions, uh, in a lot of cases and change the culture, um, and then keep asking and measuring, so how are we doing? Are we making progress? What’s working? What’s not? So, um, we show a maze symbol here because it does take, um, it takes a bit to kind of navigate and it does kind of emerge as you kind of get from step to step. Dave, anything else you want to add around, you know? Yeah, I 

David Long | 55:56 

Think, I think that bullet point around in integrating it into everything that you do, rather than, um, rather than having, um, kind of, uh, DEI initiatives in a vacuum. Yeah. Uh, we think about when we’re, when we’re having hiring conversations, when we’re having promotion conversations, um, we’re, we’re thinking about how, how do we make sure that we’re checking our biases and things like that. Um, making sure that people are, are, have an evaluative process that, uh, that is free of those sorts of things. So not just, Hey, let’s do a DEI initiative, or whatever it might be. Um, it, it would be integrating, you know, all your, your best efforts into everything that you do into normal business practices, I think is a real key here to, to help move the needle on this. 

Charles Rogel | 56:42 

Yeah. And I think, uh, if I was gonna say, what’s the trend? The trend is that DEI is kind of here to stay. It’s morphing a bit, but, you know, in 2020 we might’ve had 20% of our clients asking questions like this on their employee survey. Now it’s virtually all of them. And, uh, in fact, it’s, it’s kind of embedded on our standard survey that we start with, uh, some of these DEI questions. So, um, it, it’s important to employees, they care about it, especially your younger employees, which make up most of the workforce. Now it’s an expectation. And so if they don’t see effort around this topic, um, they’re gonna wonder what’s going on? How come we’re not, you know, on top of this. Um, all right. So questions. So we went through a lot of data, a lot of topics here. We’re running outta time. Uh, thank you all for your feedback. Um, but yeah, if you have other trends that you’re seeing that we didn’t point out here, we’d love to kind of hear about them and get your reaction. And, uh, Dave, we’re gonna recircle, I’m gonna, I’m gonna bring up this slide deck again at the end of the year and call you out on some of your predictions here. Yeah. And see how well you did. Thank 

David Long | 57:49 

You, Charles. I was hoping that you would do that 

Charles Rogel | 57:51 

<laugh>, right? Um, no. But yeah, thanks everyone for participating. Hope to catch you on our next webinar. We do these monthly, and, uh, really appreciate the participation today. 

David Long | 58:03 

Thanks everybody. 

Charles Rogel | 58:05 

Bye now.